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This is the Queen; Cleopatra

Third Question



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Question 3


Otherwise who else? A saint is already enlightened, only sinners are left to be enlightened.

But religions have taught you something which is creating the problem. They have condemned you as sinners -- how can you become enlightened?

Sin is nothing but error. There is no condemnation in the word -- it is just error! And those who err, they learn.

All saints have been sinners. There has never been a saint who has not been a sinner, otherwise how will he come to be a saint? He travelled, he erred, he went astray, he fell a million times, and rose up again. He has reached. The whole journey he has been a sinner. Now he has learned, and now no error happens. He has become wise through sinning, through errors. He knows. He has become enlightened. Out of the darkness of the night is the morn born.

Every saint has been a sinner, and every sinner will become a saint. The past of the saint is bound to be of sin, and the future of every sinner is bound to be of saintliness. So between a saint and a sinner there is only a difference of past and future, that's all. Don't feel condemned. Sin in itself is enough, why burden yourself even more by condemnation?

Be alert, that's all. You will have to commit mistakes, but don't commit the same mistake again, that's all. Be alert, watch -- and learn! In fact if you ask me, then I will tell you that the world of sin is the world of learning. One cannot learn without it. One has to go deep in sin.

It is just like the roots of a tree: the deeper the roots go, the higher go the branches. A tree grows to a great height, but it depends, is based, on the roots which go deeper and deeper and deeper.

If you come across a great saint you must know that he must have sinned greatly. The roots must go deep! Otherwise how can he know so much? If he has never sinned he will be not innocent but stupid.

There are stupid saints also -- to me they are not saints, they are simply afraid people, cowards. They have never sinned, they never went astray, they have always clung to the right path, to the well trodden path, to the ideology the society has given to them, to the concepts the religion has enforced on their minds, to the conditioning that they have been born into -- they have clung to it, they have never moved astray, they are cowards, they have learned nothing. To me, their value is zero. They may be good people, but their goodness is saltless. It has no flavour. It is a little dull and dead.

You will find two types of saints in the world: one, who is saintly out of fear, who, out of fear of the hell, fear of the consequences, never sinned. He is almost a clay saint, not real, he has not achieved anything; and you will not find him wise, because from where will he get the wisdom? He never went astray, how will he become mature? He will be a child, ignorant, foolish and stupid; not harmful, but you cannot learn anything through him. At the most he can teach you his stupidity, his cowardliness.

There is another type of saint -- you are fortunate if you can find a saint of the other type, because if a hundred saints exist, ninety.nine are stupid. It has to be so -- that is the proportion between stupidity and intelligence, so it has to be always the same proportion everywhere. In the world, in the marketplace, the same proportion exists: ninety-nine stupid persons, one person intelligent, wise, aware. The same proportion has to be reflected in the saints also -- in all directions!

If you can find the one who has lived, and lived dangerously, and moved in all directions without any fear, and learnt through experience to transcend sin -- not that he never committed sin, he committed it, and he committed it totally and intensely, that's why he could transcend it; he could see it through and through, he could see the very absurdity of it, that's why he has become transcendental to it; if you can find such a saint -- only through him goes the path, the way.

Jesus could say to people, I am the way. Jesus is not an ordinary stupid saint. That was the reason why he was crucified. If he had been an ordinary stupid saint he would have been worshipped! Jews would have proclaimed him: Here is the son of God! But the trouble was that his ways were not exactly right -- as Jews used to think right was; they were not exactly moral.

Sometimes he stayed with a prostitute. This is not saint like. Sometimes he stayed with drunkards, and he used to drink wine himself -- he loved it. And he moved with all sorts of people -- he was not respectable in any way, he didn't care a bit for respectability. Immoral people, condemned by the society, were his friends. He moved in all sorts of companies.

That was the reason, the basic reason why all the priests and all the stupid so called saints were against him: because deep down he was cutting the roots of the old morality: This man is dangerous, he has to be destroyed, because he is bringing something into the world which will be a chaos for the ordinary morality -- because ordinary morality lives by rules, and a saint lives by awareness, not by rules.

Rules are for those who are cowards. A saint lives by his inner discipline, he believes in no other discipline. His own consciousness is the only law. He follows it. Wherever it leads he is ready to go -- if it goes to hell he will go to hell. Because that is his way to know the truth. He follows his own being. He does not allow anybody to enforce anything on him. He rebels.

Ordinary saints are harmless but saints like Jesus are dangerous -- to the society, to the culture, to the fixed mode of life, to the status quo, to the establishment. Jesus must have looked like a hippie -- rebellious, breaking all the rules.

That's how one should live! Because unless you live totally free, unless you suffer through your own choice, you will not transcend anything. You will remain a clay saint.

You ask, Does a sinner deserve to be enlightened? And I say, Who else? He has earned it. Through sin he has suffered. Through sin he has become mature. But I am not saying that just by sinning you will attain to it. Otherwise all would have attained! Sin plus awareness -- that should be the formula. Sin plus awareness. Then go wherever you want, and do whatsoever you like -- that awareness will bring you back, that awareness will always be the ladder by which you can transcend any experience.

If Jesus had been born in India he would not have been crucified, no. That has never been our practice here, because we have known even more dangerous people -- Jesus is nothing. We have known Krishna. In fact, there is every possibility that CHRIST is a distorted form of KRISHNA. Jesus must have given something of the quality of Krishna. In Bengali, Krishna is KRISTO; in many European languages Christ is Cristo. CHRIST seems to be a form of KRISHNA; Christ is not Jesus' name. Jesus Christ means Jesus the Krishna -- something of Krishna was in him. Being in love with Mary Magdalene; something like Krishna in love with Radha.

Jews could not believe it. They are very moralistic people; mathematical, calculating: and here comes this man and he will destroy the whole structure!

We allowed Krishna sixteen thousand girl friends. We call them GOPIS. Gopi is a better word than girl friend, more lovely and more deep. Sixteen thousand we allowed him and we never crucified this man. And not all were married to him, a few of them were others' wives. Radha herself was not his wife, but somebody else's.

Just a few days before there was a case in Uttar Pradesh, in a court, about a certain land. A certain piece of land for centuries has been in Radha Krishna's name. Now new rules have come in and that much land cannot be in one person's name. But the judge has given his judgement -- and it is beautiful; he said: Because it is in the name of Radha Krishna it is not in one person's name, and because Radha was never a legal wife to Krishna, these are two persons. So the land can remain as it is, because it is in two persons' names, and for two persons, that much land can be allowed;

Krishna's wife's name, people have completely forgotten. Her name was Rukmani. It is completely a forgotten name. Radha was not his wife. Radha was his mistress.

And India never bothered to kill this man. Rather on the contrary we have said that he is the ABSOLUTE avatar, the TOTAL coming of God on the earth. Why have we called him the total God? Because he can sin like a sinner, the greatest sinner, and he remains like a saint -- the greatest ever known. Two polarities meet in him. He is total.

If a saint is simply a saint and has never sinned he is one polar. Something is missing. When a man is two polar, and both the polarities are there, the man is total and alive. He is both night and day, life and death, chaos and cosmos.

So, you ask, Does a sinner deserve to be enlightened? I tell you, Yes. Only a sinner deserves. But awareness has to be brought in.

So I don't condemn sin. I only indicate to you: Sin, but sin with conscious, alert, aware mind.

Do whatsoever you like. If you want to take wine, take it, but remain alert. Soon you will find that this is impossible. When you take wine you lose awareness, and when you lose awareness it is simply sin. Then there is no possibility of saintliness happening in it. If you can drink and remain alert, drink as much as you want -- it is water, nothing else.

It is said that Jesus turned water into wine. I teach you the other trick -- how to turn wine into water: be aware. Then you will do a greater miracle than Jesus ever did.

Be aware, and wine becomes water. Be aware -- sex becomes love. Be aware -- love becomes prayer. Be aware -- prayer becomes meditation. Simply one thing has to be remembered: do whatsoever you like, but do it with full consciousness, and then you will not go astray.


Next: Chapter 8, This is the Queen; Cleopatra, Fourth Question


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Chapter 8






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