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Attaining Absolute Indifference

Fourth Question



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The fourth question:

Question 4


NONE WHATSOEVER -- because Tao is whatsoever is the case right now. Tao is the present. Growth brings future in. The very idea of growth brings the future in, and then everything is distorted. Not that you don't grow in Tao, in fact you only grow in Tao, but the idea of growth is completely foreign to the world of Tao. They don't talk of growth: they only talk of how to be, not how to grow.

And if you know how to be, that is the only way to grow. If you know how to be in this moment you are on the path of growth. You need not think about it, it comes by itself on its own accord, just as a river finds its way to the sea without consulting any guidebook, without asking anybody on the path where the ocean is. It finds the way. Not trying to find it, still it finds. It goes on moving, moment to moment living its life; finally it reaches the ocean. This moment lived well and totally, the next moment will come out of this moment -- from where else can it come? It will grow out of it on its own, you need not worry about it. You live this moment in totality, and the next moment is born out of this. If you have lived totally then the possibility for the next moment is born with it -- it can also be lived totally

If you know how to live totally, you will also live the next moment totally. And every moment more and more total you will become and growth will happen on its own. But if you are too concerned about growth then you miss this moment, and that is the only time one can grow in.

So Lao Tzu doesn't talk about growth, because he knows that the very talk about growth will become postponement. Then one thinks, "I will grow tomorrow. Today is not the time for me. Many other things have to be done; growth can wait a little. There is no hurry." And then you go on postponing and you go on living this moment in a fragmentary, partial way. And the next moment will come out of it, and with each moment you will become more and more partial, fragmented, divided, split. Then who will grow and how does one grow?

One has to become that which one is already. One has to attain that which one is born with. You have to become that which is your very being, the very basis of being -- so right now is the work. This passing moment has to be used so intensely, absorbed so intensely... then it becomes growth. Growth is not an ideal in Tao, it is a byproduct.

And about spirituality Tao does not concern itself at all -- if you ask Lao Tzu he will laugh. If you talk about spirituality he may slap your face, he may throw you out and say to you, "Go somewhere else. Don't bring such stupid things to me." Why? Because the moment you say spiritual you have divided life into the material and the spiritual -- and he is for the total, the whole. The moment you say spiritual you have condemned something in the material, in the body, in the world. The very word "spiritual" carries a condemnation in it, a division.

You can see people who think they are spiritual; in their eyes you can see condemnation. Don't go very near to them, they are poisonous; in their very breath there is danger and infection. Escape from them! Whenever you see a spiritual man coming towards you run as fast as you can, because he is ill. He is deeply neurotic, he is a schizophrenic, because he has divided life into two, and life is an undivided whole; it cannot be divided.

Life is not soul, life is not body, life is both. You are not body and soul, you are bodysoul. That "and" is dangerous, drop it. I have seen people who have dropped the "and" but still when they think of bodysoul they cannot make it one word, they place a small hyphen instead of the "and" between the two. Even that hyphen is dangerous, drop that also. Make bodysoul one word. It is one. Make mattermind one; make this world and that world one. Let your God be here, down in the matter, and let your matter rise high and enter into your God. Then how can you talk about spirituality?

In India this disease is very old, this disease of spirituality. People come to me, spiritual people. Not knowing me rightly, sometimes, they come to me by fault. They talk about their spirituality and in the same breath they talk about others' materialism. It is a cliche in India that the West is materialist and the East is spiritual. This is nonsense. This is just a very bigoted, schizophrenic mind. It arises out of the division between the body and soul -- then everything will be divided, then your whole life will always carry a division. Even the body is divided into two: the higher body is something higher, and below the navel the lower body is really lower -- lower as a valuation. Body and soul are divided, then the body is also divided: the lower part is somehow dirty, the higher part is holy, sacred. In fact where has your body a division inside it? Can you demark a place from where the body becomes lower? The blood circulates all over the body, the same blood. The whole body is one network, how can you divide it? And to people who divide, tell them, "Cut your lower body and live with the higher. Then we will see." They will die immediately.

That's what happens to spiritual people, they are dead people. This has been my observation: that even materialists are more alive than your spiritual people, because materialists deep down feel that someday they will try to become spiritualists also. They don't condemn. Rather, on the contrary, they feel a self-condemnation inside them, a guilt, that they are not going to the temple but to the prostitute; that they are not going to prayer but they are going to a singing party, a dancing party. They know that they are doing something wrong, they feel humiliated. So there is a possibility for them because the ego feels hurt. But the spiritual person is an egoistic person. In fact, the concept of God has been created by the greatest egoists in the world -- to condemn others and to appreciate themselves.

God is total, but the God of the so-called spiritual people is not total. Their God is just an abstraction, a thought, a pure thought with no life in it.

Lao Tzu is not spiritual in that sense, and he won't allow any spirituality into his vicinity. He is simply for the whole; he is simply for no division. I am also for no division. When I initiate you into SANNYAS I am not initiating you into spirituality, I am initiating you into a life of the whole -- I am trying to make you holy, not spiritual. And remember by holy I always mean the whole, in which you will live an integrated life -- an organically integrated life of body, soul, world, God, market and meditation; an integrated life where no division exists; a flowing energy, not compartmentalized. I don't want any airtight compartments in your being. Your being should be liquid. You should be courageous, so courageous that even the sinner can exist side by side with the saint in you, and the saint is not afraid and the sinner doesn't feel condemned. When your sinner and saint come closer and closer and one day become one, you have become holy. Then you have not denied anything, you are not a no-sayer, you have said yes to the whole of life as it is, with no conditions attached. You have said yes to the whole life -- this to me is what a religious man is.

And the same is true with Lao Tzu: he does not bother about growth, growth will take its own course -- you just live the moment. He does not bother about spirituality -- you just live totally, and spirituality will take care of itself. It will come -- it is a flowering, not a discipline.

When one is total, life flowers -- and that flowering is spirituality. Spirituality is not an attitude, it is not a discipline. It is an outcome of a life lived totally, joyfully, delightfully; of a life of no complaint; of a life lived courageously, intensely. Then this flowering happens.


Next: Chapter 8, Attaining Absolute Indifference, Fifth Question


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Chapter 8






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