Pythagoras, The golden verses of Pythagoras, Vol. 1 Philosophia Perennis Chapter 5: Beep Beep!, Question 4

The fourth question

Question 4

OSHO, WHY ARE PEOPLE DRAWN HERE AS IF BY A MAGNET? WHY ARE PEOPLE HELD HERE? IS IT OUR NEED? OR IS IT YOUR MAGNETISM? SOMETIMES I THINK YOU ARE A GOD WHO IS PLAYING FOR US AND I AM JOYFUL. THEN I THINK YOU ARE A SINISTER MAGICIAN MANIPULATING US AND I AM AFRAID AND RESENTFUL.

I WISH I COULD BELIEVE TOTALLY IN YOUR DISINTERESTEDNESS. IS THIS ALL JUST MY CREATING MORE NONSENSE?

Julian Holdsworth,

I AM NOT HERE -- HENCE THE MAGNETISM. It is not the magnet of my presence; I am absent. And whenever a person disappears and becomes absent, God becomes present. God can be present only when you are absent; you can't both exist together. The moment you come in, he goes out; the moment you go out, he comes in. They never meet. They are like darkness and light.

There is an ancient parable:

One day, darkness approached God and said, "I have not committed anything wrong against the sun, but the sun goes on and on torturing me -- for NO reason at all! Why is your sun so much against me? He follows me and wherever he comes, I have to escape -- I am so afraid. He is bent upon killing me. And I have suffered for millions of years. It is enough! I cannot contain it any more; I have come to make a complaint."

God said, "That is true! Why should he torture you?"

And the sun was called, and he was asked why he was against darkness, and he said, "What do you mean by 'darkness'? I have never met her. Where is darkness? First please let me be introduced -- how can I torture somebody I have not even seen? You bring her here so I can see and then there will be no complaint."

Now millions of years have passed; God has been trying to bring them together but has failed. They say God is omnipotent -- but not in this matter. How can you bring light and darkness together? And unless both are present in the court, judgement can be given.

So, the judgement is pending. The case is in the court still, but God has not been able to produce both together. Summonses have been received by darkness, but it is impossible...

So is the case with the ego and God: ego is nothing but a darkness -- YOUR presence is a darkness, God's presence is light. Whenever a person disappears, God appears. Whenever there is nothingness inside, allness starts expressing through you. Whenever you become a hollow bamboo, you become a flute on his lips -- a great song starts flowing through you.

I am not... that is the magnet. It is not my magnet. Jesus was not... that was his magnet, but not his really -- it only appears as his. When Jesus says, "I am the door, I am the way, I am the truth," he does not mean Jesus the son of Joseph and Mary. When he is saying, "I am the way," it is God declaring through the absence of Jesus. When he says, "Nobody comes to God except through me," he is not declaring that everybody has to come through Jesus.

That's what Christians have been trying to prove to the world: "Jesus says, 'Anybody who ever comes, comes only through me' -- so you cannot come through Buddha and you cannot come through Lao Tzu. You have to come only through Jesus!" That is utter nonsense. When Jesus says, "You come only through me," his 'me' is not his. He has been used only as an empty vehicle.

It is the same 'me' that Krishna used. Krishna says to Arjuna "Unless you come to my feet, you will not attain." The same 'I', the same 'me'....

Buddha says, "Come to me and I will show you the path." The same 'me' -- it is GOD'S 'me'. It has nothing to do with Christianity or Buddhism.

When I say, "Come, follow me," it is the same me. It is the 'me' of the universe.

Whenever a man disappears, God's magnetism starts radiating.

Holdsworth, you ask me: WHY ARE PEOPLE DRAWN HERE AS IF BY A MAGNET?

There is a magnet -- but I am not that magnet. I am not the one that appears to you: something more is happening, something beyond visibility, something that cannot be seen by the eyes, something that cannot be heard by the ears, something intangible... that is the magnet.

Millions and millions of people are going to come.

You ask: WHY ARE PEOPLE HELD HERE?

Nobody is held here, nobody is holding them here. It is out of their own choice. It is out of their own love. India has nothing to offer -- except this art of being a non-being. Those who are here have left beautiful homes, well-paid jobs, all the modern facilities, luxuries, comforts, conveniences to live here in all kinds of difficulties. India is not a place to live! Nobody is holding them, but they can't go. The whole world has lost meaning for them. They have tasted something -- something for which they are ready to suffer, something for which they are ready to go through all kinds of troubles -- legal, governmental, social, medical. Nobody can guarantee you when your enlightenment will happen. Only one thing can be guaranteed: that hepatitis is certain!

You ask me: IS IT OUR NEED? OR IS IT YOUR MAGNETISM?

It is your need, and it is God's magnetism. And there is no question of either/or. It is your thirst and it is the river of God that is flowing here, that has appeared here. You would not be here without thirst, and you would not be here if the river were not here even if you had thirst. It is not a question of either/or: the river is here, you are thirsty.

SOMETIMES I THINK YOU ARE A GOD WHO IS PLAYING FOR US AND I AM JOYFUL. THEN I THINK YOU ARE A SINISTER MAGICIAN MANIPULATING US AND I AM AFRAID AND RESENTFUL.

That simply shows your love/hate relationship. It has nothing to do with me it is your projection. I am just an emptiness, a blank canvas: you can paint anything that you like on it. This is YOUR duality: YOU are divided. You have this division between God and Devil within you, between good and bad, between the should and the should-not. It is your division; it has nothing to do with me.

So when you look from one side of your being, you will see a God and you will be very joyous. When you look through the other side of your being, you will see a Devil and you will be resentful. And remember: it is all your creation -- the God and the Devil, both are your creation.

But you have been taught and conditioned in this dual way. You are not total -- that's why it is happening this way. One day you will be in love with me, and another day you will be in tremendous hate with me. And I am not responsible either for love or for hate. If you become total, then the idea of good and bad will both disappear -- and that will be when for the first time you will be able to see who I am. In fact, that is the experience of God. But it is NOT your God who is against evil: it is God who is a transcendence -- transcendence of all good and bad.

So remember: when I use the word 'God' and you use the word 'God' our meanings are different. When I use the word 'God', I mean beyond your God and Devil, where all dualities have disappeared and only oneness prevails. When I use the word 'love' it is not your word, because your word always carries the colour of hate in it. When I use the word 'love' I mean when love/hate relationship has disappeared... then arises a totally different kind of love: absolute love, total love, pure love, innocent love, transcendental love.

So it will happen again and again. I use the word in one meaning, and you understand in a totally different way -- and it is natural. In the beginning it is bound to be so. Holdsworth, you are new here -- this has happened to my people, to almost everybody. Don't be worried about it; enjoy both. When you are in love with me, be joyous and enjoy it. And when you hate me, enjoy your hate too, enjoy your resentfulness. Then be in real hate.

If you can be in real love and real hate, soon you will be able to see that hate and love are both disappearing -- REALITY is bridging them both, authenticity is a bridge. If you can love me really and hate me really, then one thing is similar in both -- the real, the authenticity. That will bridge them.

And beyond that bridge, one day, the sunrise. And you see me as just pure emptiness. And through that emptiness, God's flowing -- God who is beyond God and evil, beyond good and bad, beyond sin and virtue.

I WISH, you say, I COULD BELIEVE TOTALLY IN YOUR DISINTERESTEDNESS.

Do you think God is disinterested in the world? Then why did he create it? The gospels say God created the world in six days, then he looked at the world and said, "It is good. It is beautiful." He created it and loved it.

From where have you got this idea of disinterestedness? God is utter interest. We cannot say he is interested in the world because you will misunderstand it. It is better to say he is absolute interest, not that there is somebody who is interested: his whole being is interest. He is in tremendous love -- he is love.

Jesus says: "God is love." If God is love how can he be uninterested, disinterested?

I am not disinterested in anything. I AM NOT! And there is only a tremendous love, a tremendous interest, in everything -- in the trees, in the people, in the birds, in the sun, in the moon, in the stars. But I can understand.

Your saints have been teaching you that unless you are disinterested, you will not be religious -- become disinterested in everything and you will be religious. That is a kind of shrinking. The more disinterested you become, the more dull and dead you become.

I don't teach disinterestedness: I teach immense interestedness. Expand, love more and more... Let your ripples of love reach to the very boundaries of existence, if there are any boundaries. Let this whole existence be full of your love and interest. Get involved! Participate in these mysteries!

But it is natural: when you come to me, you come with all your expectations. Now you say:

I WISH I COULD BELIEVE TOTALLY IN YOUR DISINTERESTEDNESS.

Why? Why should you make such a demand on me and such a demand on yourself? You are making an impossible demand. I cannot fulfill it, because God cannot fulfill it. If God was disinterested in the world, the world would have disappeared long before.

In one of his beautiful poems, Rabindranath says: "Whenever I see a new-born child, I thank God and I say to him, 'So you are still hopeful? So you are not tired of man yet?"'

When Rabindranath was dying, the last prayer that he made was: "God, if you feel about me that I was of any use to you, send me back to the earth. I don't ask to get rid of world -- I want to be thrown back into the world. Your world been so beautiful. If you feel me worthy, send me back."

This is very strange, because in India the saints have been praying down the ages: "We don't want to come back. Please, don't send us back into the world. It is a punishment to be back in the world." And Rabindranath is singing a song, a prayer: "If you feel me of ANY worth, send me back."

I agree with Rabindranath. Rabindranath to me is far better a seer and far greater a sage than your so-called saints. They are all anti-life. I am not anti-life because GOD IS not anti-life! God is life! How can I be anti-life?

I love this world, I love this world absolutely. I am not disinterested at all -- I am UTTERLY interested. I am ALL INTEREST. So please, Holdsworth, forget about it. You will not be able to manage it.

And why should you make such a demand on yourself? And how can you be totally in trust? How can your trust be total, your belief be total? Unless you become total, you are divided. And these are the ways of division -- interested, disinterested. To be interested is a sin, to be disinterested is a virtue -- and these are the things that are dividing you. Drop all these divisions. Be innocent. Don't be calculative.

In that innocence you will be able to see that there is an interest which is also disinterest. Right now it will be very difficult to understand because it will be a great paradox. There is a love which is not attachment. There is an involvement which is not a commitment. One can live like a lotus flower in the pond -- in the water and yet untouched by the water. But that is not YOUR idea of disinterestedness.

My message to my sannyasins is: Be in the world and yet be beyond it. Be in the world, totally be in it, and yet not in it at all. When this paradox is fulfilled, one has arrived.

Pythagoras

VOL. 1, PHILOSOPHIA PERENNIS

Chapter-5

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